"Increase cost slightly"

Is this form the new item being added to the hull manf requirements?

I was hoping the invension side could be looked at as well. If I'm understanding this correctly, this item is being used to put some cost difference into the hulls like how the racial Hybrid Tech Decryptors used to. Except it's being done on building side instead of invension. Which imo is where the changes need to be made.

Back when hybrid tech decryptors were a thing, the caldari racial variant was so expensive it proped up the intact and malf relic prices because of how inefficient using wrecked relics were. With the rest of the races bouncing between malf and wrecked.

Removing the decryptors made all four T3s cost the same to invent. Then later (or was it at the same time?) we got to choose the outcome of our invension and that basically buffed invension chance by 200% (1/4 chance of what you wanted to 1/1). This is also ignoring the success boosting decryptors we get to use now as well.

So what I'd like to see is Hybrid Tech Decryptors added back into sleeper data sites (Giving them back the only drop that was worth anything) and then reducing the invension chance by 50% (or 75% if you want to go back to how relics used to be priced).

Then maybe I won't have to tell people that run relic/data sleeper sites that the hackable cans are a waste of time.

A question triggered by this:



Currently we've got 4 subsystem choices for each type, can you expand on why there's a limitation for only 3 now?
Are the ships getting a complete remodel from scratch, or are you just binning off certain subsystems and now only have the art budget to maintain 3 of each of the 4 subsystems?

I'm really hoping we're not going to lose out on some of the more distinct and pretty subsystem combos!

I'd love to comment more on the balance side of things, but don't think there is enough of a full picture for it right now. Some of the ideas and changes to the subsystems sound promising though.

I doubt that 95% has any basis in fact. Regardless, I would be surprised if T3s made any notable contribution to lag and tidi than many other things - certain drones/missiles/bubbles will all be far bigger contributers.

Not to mention the idea of completely removing the unique and interesting art side of things would completely remove the gameplay of trying to work out what fits you could be fighting against from the look of the hulls. If you've never done that I'm going to assume you've never really hunted solo T3s / done much small scale pvp with them.

SP loss only matters if you lose the ship. Do everything right and the hull is relatively cheap for what it's capable of doing. The upfront cost should be higher.

SP loss also unfairly hurts newer players. Older players who typically have most of the skills they want trained up don't have to sacrifice anything to train their subsystem skills back up, but newer players have to choose between the subsystems or other important skills they haven't trained yet.

The decreased lock range isn't that big of a deal if you're being bridged in by a Blops to gank a target, which is what the cloaked + nullified + offensive T3Cs are going to be doing. The decreased agility and increased signature radius don't matter if you fit warp core stabs in your lows when traveling -- again, something that isn't an issue if you're being bridged by Blops anyway.

I was going to suggest an increased delay in lock time after decloaking, but even that doesn't matter if the target is already pointed by a cloaked T3C that's fit for heavy tackle.

[quote=Novor Drethan][quote=Jeremiah Saken]Your own words:

I have no idea what you are writing about. You want a premium price for a hull that is worse than T2 but have some abilities that their counterparts won't have (interdiction nullifiing I presume). Did you ever bother to read proposed changes to T3C, because I don't think so. Tank resists will be nerfed below T2, nullifing sub will have serious drawbacks, cloak will have less than average tank. The only thing that may be usefull is interdiction nullifing subsystem to travel.
Nobody will fly a hull that will cost fitting+spare subsystems = rook+basilisk+nighthawk+cerberus. That will be 1,5 bil ISK and it's not guarantee that you'll use all that stuff. It won't be worth it. The fact you think T3 are so versatible or will be so shows you have very to none experience to them.

It shouldn't be CCP's job to make sure the players have ships that do everything they want. It's the players who need to adapt.

I would love if my Marauder had better resists or the ability to use a MJD when in Bastion, but CCP has rejected both those things. Why? Well, for balance.

I don't believe a ship that can fit a covert cloak, interdiction nullification, and 6 bonused turrets/launchers is balanced. There's a reason Recon Ships don't have spectacular DPS and tank. There's a reason they don't have interdiction nullification. There's a reason Black Ops Battleships can't fit covert cloaks.

All of that reasoning goes out the window with T3Cs though. It's as though every other ship in the game is balanced by one standard while T3Cs are balanced by another, and it certainly doesn't help that so many players support that.

1. T3Cs are Cruisers. They are not Battlecruisers. They are not Battleships.
2. Being T3 does not justify them being fundamentally broken in terms of balance. T3Ds were just rebalanced by CCP, and they seem to be in a good place. They are very much Destroyer hulls. They don't compete all that much with Cruisers, and they certainly don't compete with Battlecruisers. T3Cs should be very much the same, relative to their hull size.
3. Cost is not a proper balancing tool when used as an excuse to try and justify an unbalanced ship. We know this. Marauders are 10x as much as T1 Battleships, but CCP refuses to give them T2 resists -- they cost as much as Dreadnaughts, but don't perform anywhere near the same level. The same should be true of T3Cs. You shouldn't be paying all that extra isk for a brokenly powerful ship. You should be paying that isk for a ship that's versatile and can adapt to many different roles -- unlike T2 ships, which are limited to specific roles.

This really all seems like common sense, but T3Cs have been so strong for so long that people simply aren't willing to admit that they need a much more extensive nerf than we're currently seeing. I think that this should be the goal.